Comments on: First Impression: LeMond Poprad Disc http://www.commutebybike.com/2007/05/31/first-impression-lemond-poprad-disc/ Tips, Hints, Reviews and Safety for Bike Commuters Sat, 11 Feb 2012 19:00:59 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: jez http://www.commutebybike.com/2007/05/31/first-impression-lemond-poprad-disc/comment-page-1/#comment-127958 jez Wed, 23 Sep 2009 20:14:26 +0000 http://commutebybike.com/2007/05/31/first-impression-lemond-poprad-disc/#comment-127958 Yep - I had lots of issues with wheels going out of true too. It was driving me mad. A mechanic put a special gripper substance on the screw part of the nipples/spoke ends so that the spokes would not unscrew. It seems to have done the job and the wheels have been perfect for several months. It's a lot cheaper option than having new wheels made up. Yep – I had lots of issues with wheels going out of true too. It was driving me mad. A mechanic put a special gripper substance on the screw part of the nipples/spoke ends so that the spokes would not unscrew. It seems to have done the job and the wheels have been perfect for several months. It’s a lot cheaper option than having new wheels made up.

]]> By: shan http://www.commutebybike.com/2007/05/31/first-impression-lemond-poprad-disc/comment-page-1/#comment-127727 shan Tue, 22 Sep 2009 23:02:27 +0000 http://commutebybike.com/2007/05/31/first-impression-lemond-poprad-disc/#comment-127727 Bought the bike in February 09. The ride is plush, fit is great, seat replaced, disc breaks squeak off and on until adjusted. I Ride 100-150 miles per week commuting; Rode the STP in 1 day on this bike also. I weight 195 carried a back pack for a few months now have racks with bags. Wheels constantly out of true, rear wheel eventually replaced (under warrenty) due to defective rear rim. I got 6 months of free tuning thank goodness. I did first cross race in September and rims were out of true immediately. So, its going to cost me 600-800 dollars for custom wheels to handle cross races and commuting. I praise the bike for it's ride and ease of set-up for commuting, but if the wheels are that whimpy why even sell them? So, if you want to cross you might look at a different bike. sd Bought the bike in February 09. The ride is plush, fit is great, seat replaced, disc breaks squeak off and on until adjusted. I Ride 100-150 miles per week commuting; Rode the STP in 1 day on this bike also. I weight 195 carried a back pack for a few months now have racks with bags.
Wheels constantly out of true, rear wheel eventually replaced (under warrenty) due to defective rear rim. I got 6 months of free tuning thank goodness.
I did first cross race in September and rims were out of true immediately. So, its going to cost me 600-800 dollars for custom wheels to handle cross races and commuting.
I praise the bike for it’s ride and ease of set-up for commuting, but if the wheels are that whimpy why even sell them? So, if you want to cross you might look at a different bike.
sd

]]> By: KDub http://www.commutebybike.com/2007/05/31/first-impression-lemond-poprad-disc/comment-page-1/#comment-120211 KDub Sun, 23 Aug 2009 21:17:01 +0000 http://commutebybike.com/2007/05/31/first-impression-lemond-poprad-disc/#comment-120211 Hey PBnotJ, Yep, they seem like a tough wheel. I think Bontrager components are well designed and Trek was very supportive. My buddy has two years of commuting and two cross seasons (a total of about 4,000 tough miles) on his Bontrager Select Disk wheels. He said they have survived what he thought would have been the demise of many wheels. He would like me to believe that my wheel failures are the result of poor technique on my part. I pointed out in my defence that his average combined riding weight is about 40lbs lighter than mine, his commute is on smoother roads and he rides a 52cm while I ride a 57cm. My commuting weight... me, bike, gear, water, etc. runs up towards 230lbs. Additionally, I am not "light" so to speak on the bike in that I wrestle (ala Jens Voight always fighting) the bike while climbing, sprinting, etc. and I am sure this combined with weight and terrain is why I trash lots of stuff. I suspect the Bontis have too few spokes to reasonably expect even the best built wheel to hold up to my application. I know when I was (on the Bontragers) climbing out of the saddle in a big gear, I could feel and see the rear wheel flexing quite a bit (maybe a cm) while my buddy's wheel still does not flex noticably. My wheel failures were all gradual, unlike the buckling described by Darian and I always made it home. They just softened up inspite of frequent attention (proper tension, dish, etc.), refused to remain true and eventually broke spokes. This even after rebilding with heavier spokes and rim (which flexed less and lasted longer). I believe you are correct with respect to "protecting" the wheel with the 32c tires. I think the cross knobs soften the ride slightly beyond that of a slick. My brake grab and chatter issues (see my post from a while back) only showed up when I ran a slick at higher speeds and tire pressure (than the knobby cross tire). Have a great ride, KDub :^) Hey PBnotJ,
Yep, they seem like a tough wheel. I think Bontrager components are well designed and Trek was very supportive.
My buddy has two years of commuting and two cross seasons (a total of about 4,000 tough miles) on his Bontrager Select Disk wheels. He said they have survived what he thought would have been the demise of many wheels. He would like me to believe that my wheel failures are the result of poor technique on my part. I pointed out in my defence that his average combined riding weight is about 40lbs lighter than mine, his commute is on smoother roads and he rides a 52cm while I ride a 57cm. My commuting weight… me, bike, gear, water, etc. runs up towards 230lbs. Additionally, I am not “light” so to speak on the bike in that I wrestle (ala Jens Voight always fighting) the bike while climbing, sprinting, etc. and I am sure this combined with weight and terrain is why I trash lots of stuff. I suspect the Bontis have too few spokes to reasonably expect even the best built wheel to hold up to my application. I know when I was (on the Bontragers) climbing out of the saddle in a big gear, I could feel and see the rear wheel flexing quite a bit (maybe a cm) while my buddy’s wheel still does not flex noticably.
My wheel failures were all gradual, unlike the buckling described by Darian and I always made it home. They just softened up inspite of frequent attention (proper tension, dish, etc.), refused to remain true and eventually broke spokes. This even after rebilding with heavier spokes and rim (which flexed less and lasted longer).
I believe you are correct with respect to “protecting” the wheel with the 32c tires. I think the cross knobs soften the ride slightly beyond that of a slick. My brake grab and chatter issues (see my post from a while back) only showed up when I ran a slick at higher speeds and tire pressure (than the knobby cross tire).
Have a great ride, KDub :^)

]]> By: darian http://www.commutebybike.com/2007/05/31/first-impression-lemond-poprad-disc/comment-page-1/#comment-120208 darian Sun, 23 Aug 2009 21:10:39 +0000 http://commutebybike.com/2007/05/31/first-impression-lemond-poprad-disc/#comment-120208 thanks all....I commute 15miles either way daily without fail for the crap weather here in london, I have my mudguards but the wheels frustrate me no end! Its a smooth journey, but rubbish wheels are ruining my life! I rode on bontrager race x lites on the same route for >3yrs without a buckle or bend....so my only guess is these wheels cannot take the load with the lack of spokes.... I will take the advice of a few and build a 135mm hub wheel with a few more spokes and have my bike shop bend my frame to take the wide rear hub.....pity a manufacturer like Trek dont test their good before selling them.... Darian thanks all….I commute 15miles either way daily without fail for the crap weather here in london, I have my mudguards but the wheels frustrate me no end!
Its a smooth journey, but rubbish wheels are ruining my life!
I rode on bontrager race x lites on the same route for >3yrs without a buckle or bend….so my only guess is these wheels cannot take the load with the lack of spokes….
I will take the advice of a few and build a 135mm hub wheel with a few more spokes and have my bike shop bend my frame to take the wide rear hub…..pity a manufacturer like Trek dont test their good before selling them….
Darian

]]> By: pbnotj http://www.commutebybike.com/2007/05/31/first-impression-lemond-poprad-disc/comment-page-1/#comment-120143 pbnotj Sun, 23 Aug 2009 16:15:55 +0000 http://commutebybike.com/2007/05/31/first-impression-lemond-poprad-disc/#comment-120143 Just FYI, not everyone with this bike has any problems with the wheels. I have the 2008 model pictured and I live in Duluth MN one insanely hilly place (commuting requires almost 500, 1000` vertical over about a mile or two everyday), and our roads are beat up badly by our severe winters. I have used this bike daily since april with longer rides on the weekend and I have had no problems with the wheels. Two caveats, I don't track my miles but I doubt I've done 1000 miles on it yet and I may protect the wheels some in that I always run the 32c tires on it due to the insanely rough roads here. FYI The disc brakes have been a godsend on the hills and take adjusting but work great after broken in. Just FYI, not everyone with this bike has any problems with the wheels. I have the 2008 model pictured and I live in Duluth MN one insanely hilly place (commuting requires almost 500, 1000` vertical over about a mile or two everyday), and our roads are beat up badly by our severe winters. I have used this bike daily since april with longer rides on the weekend and I have had no problems with the wheels. Two caveats, I don’t track my miles but I doubt I’ve done 1000 miles on it yet and I may protect the wheels some in that I always run the 32c tires on it due to the insanely rough roads here. FYI The disc brakes have been a godsend on the hills and take adjusting but work great after broken in.

]]> By: KDub http://www.commutebybike.com/2007/05/31/first-impression-lemond-poprad-disc/comment-page-1/#comment-119925 KDub Sat, 22 Aug 2009 22:20:12 +0000 http://commutebybike.com/2007/05/31/first-impression-lemond-poprad-disc/#comment-119925 Hey Darian, Yep, I trashed, for no aparent reason, three stock "Bonedragger" (sorry Keith) rear wheels and have heard of others complaining about that wheel. Trek replaced two of them. The third was rebuilt on the stock hub. Each time I broke spokes that bore the brake torque (the ones that slant forward when at the top of the wheel). I weigh about 180lbs, carry between 10 and 20 lbs of water and gear and the bike has about 6lbs of lock, tool bag, pump, cages, rack, fenders, light, computer, etc. I'm not especially gentle on gear. I ride rough roads hard and often in the dark. I never hit anything that caused damage, but the rear wheels all deteriorated within about 1000 miles. Finally I switched to a Shimano XT (newer centerlock disk) 32 hole (135mm fits ok in the 130mm space, but you need to wriggle it in) and an offset (I think its a Bontrager Mustang) rim. The disk to dropout spacing seems ok. I did slightly realign the derailleur hanger, but it could have been off before stuffing in the 135mm hub. I asked some frame builders and they said its probably fine on a steel frame to splay the stays (2.5mm each) to fit the 135mm hub. One thing that might have contributed was a grabby brake chatter. See my other recent post on de-tuning. I run 700x28c in the summer and 32c in the winter. Also, I once had a bike with misaligned dropouts. It cocked the wheel to one side and the bike crab walked a bit. It made no hands riding pull to one side and cornering one way much better than the other. It caused an odd stress on the wheel which required frequent retruing an retensioning. Eventually the wheel failed. I suppose a bent axel might play a sneaky role, but that's a stretch. I run a SRAM 11-28 (1050?) 10 speed cassette (on the 9sp XT hub), an Ultegra triple and Ultegra long cage rear derrailleur. I have no problems with the drivetrain or shifting performance. Hope this helps, Ken :^) Hey Darian,
Yep, I trashed, for no aparent reason, three stock “Bonedragger” (sorry Keith) rear wheels and have heard of others complaining about that wheel. Trek replaced two of them. The third was rebuilt on the stock hub. Each time I broke spokes that bore the brake torque (the ones that slant forward when at the top of the wheel). I weigh about 180lbs, carry between 10 and 20 lbs of water and gear and the bike has about 6lbs of lock, tool bag, pump, cages, rack, fenders, light, computer, etc. I’m not especially gentle on gear.
I ride rough roads hard and often in the dark. I never hit anything that caused damage, but the rear wheels all deteriorated within about 1000 miles. Finally I switched to a Shimano XT (newer centerlock disk) 32 hole (135mm fits ok in the 130mm space, but you need to wriggle it in) and an offset (I think its a Bontrager Mustang) rim. The disk to dropout spacing seems ok. I did slightly realign the derailleur hanger, but it could have been off before stuffing in the 135mm hub. I asked some frame builders and they said its probably fine on a steel frame to splay the stays (2.5mm each) to fit the 135mm hub. One thing that might have contributed was a grabby brake chatter. See my other recent post on de-tuning. I run 700x28c in the summer and 32c in the winter.
Also, I once had a bike with misaligned dropouts. It cocked the wheel to one side and the bike crab walked a bit. It made no hands riding pull to one side and cornering one way much better than the other. It caused an odd stress on the wheel which required frequent retruing an retensioning. Eventually the wheel failed. I suppose a bent axel might play a sneaky role, but that’s a stretch.
I run a SRAM 11-28 (1050?) 10 speed cassette (on the 9sp XT hub), an Ultegra triple and Ultegra long cage rear derrailleur. I have no problems with the drivetrain or shifting performance.
Hope this helps,
Ken :^)

]]> By: Anonymous http://www.commutebybike.com/2007/05/31/first-impression-lemond-poprad-disc/comment-page-1/#comment-119924 Anonymous Sat, 22 Aug 2009 22:19:24 +0000 http://commutebybike.com/2007/05/31/first-impression-lemond-poprad-disc/#comment-119924 Hey Darian, Yep, I trashed, for no aparent reason, three stock "Bonedragger" (sorry Keith) rear wheels and have heard of others complaining about that wheel. Trek replaced two of them. The third was rebuilt on the stock hub. Each time I broke spokes that bore the brake torque (the ones that slant forward when at the top of the wheel). I weigh about 180lbs, carry between 10 and 20 lbs of water and gear and the bike has about 6lbs of lock, tool bag, pump, cages, rack, fenders, light, computer, etc. I'm not especially gentle on gear. I ride rough roads hard and often in the dark. I never hit anything that caused damage, but the rear wheels all deteriorated within about 1000 miles. Finally I switched to a Shimano XT (newer centerlock disk) 32 hole (135mm fits ok in the 130mm space, but you need to wriggle it in) and an offset (I think its a Bontrager Mustang) rim. The disk to dropout spacing seems ok. I did slightly realign the derailleur hanger, but it could have been off before stuffing in the 135mm hub. I asked some frame builders and they said its probably fine on a steel frame to splay the stays (2.5mm each) to fit the 135mm hub. One thing that might have contributed was a grabby brake chatter. See my other recent post on de-tuning. I run 700x28c in the summer and 32c in the winter. Also, I once had a bike with misaligned dropouts. It cocked the wheel to one side and the bike crab walked a bit. It made no hands riding pull to one side and cornering one way much better than the other. It caused an odd stress on the wheel which required frequent retruing an retensioning. Eventually the wheel failed. I suppose a bent axel might play a sneaky role, but that's a stretch. I run a SRAM 11-28 (1050?) 10 speed cassette (on the 9sp XT hub), an Ultegra triple and Ultegra long cage rear derrailleur. I have no problems with the drivetrain or shifting performance. Hope this helps, Ken :^) Hey Darian,
Yep, I trashed, for no aparent reason, three stock “Bonedragger” (sorry Keith) rear wheels and have heard of others complaining about that wheel. Trek replaced two of them. The third was rebuilt on the stock hub. Each time I broke spokes that bore the brake torque (the ones that slant forward when at the top of the wheel). I weigh about 180lbs, carry between 10 and 20 lbs of water and gear and the bike has about 6lbs of lock, tool bag, pump, cages, rack, fenders, light, computer, etc. I’m not especially gentle on gear.
I ride rough roads hard and often in the dark. I never hit anything that caused damage, but the rear wheels all deteriorated within about 1000 miles. Finally I switched to a Shimano XT (newer centerlock disk) 32 hole (135mm fits ok in the 130mm space, but you need to wriggle it in) and an offset (I think its a Bontrager Mustang) rim. The disk to dropout spacing seems ok. I did slightly realign the derailleur hanger, but it could have been off before stuffing in the 135mm hub. I asked some frame builders and they said its probably fine on a steel frame to splay the stays (2.5mm each) to fit the 135mm hub. One thing that might have contributed was a grabby brake chatter. See my other recent post on de-tuning. I run 700x28c in the summer and 32c in the winter.
Also, I once had a bike with misaligned dropouts. It cocked the wheel to one side and the bike crab walked a bit. It made no hands riding pull to one side and cornering one way much better than the other. It caused an odd stress on the wheel which required frequent retruing an retensioning. Eventually the wheel failed. I suppose a bent axel might play a sneaky role, but that’s a stretch.
I run a SRAM 11-28 (1050?) 10 speed cassette (on the 9sp XT hub), an Ultegra triple and Ultegra long cage rear derrailleur. I have no problems with the drivetrain or shifting performance.
Hope this helps,
Ken :^)

]]> By: darian http://www.commutebybike.com/2007/05/31/first-impression-lemond-poprad-disc/comment-page-1/#comment-119539 darian Fri, 21 Aug 2009 20:17:41 +0000 http://commutebybike.com/2007/05/31/first-impression-lemond-poprad-disc/#comment-119539 Hi All, I am glad to have found this forum and decent reviews of a great bike. I got my original poprad disc in 2005 (orange) and due to the frame cracking had to get a replacement being the Trek X02. (reason for the X02 is that trek in the UK had no Poprads left....they stopped making them) I hated most about the Trek X02, I guess it really all about the brakes...and communting everyday in london where the weather is crap means the discs are the best thing since sliced bread with decent mud guards. Earlier this year I was able to source a new poprad disc (red 08 model) from the USA, so I am happy again :-) So here is my gripe, from day 1 and poprad 1, the rear Bontrager disc selects cant stay true! On my first poprad 2 rear wheels failed....nipple ripped through the rim....crazy but true and the wheel needed trueing roughly every month. It would not go slightly buckled.....but rediculously buckled or a broken spoke. With the new poprad and new wheelset (also bontrager select disc) the wheel is buckling again and breaking spokes. The rear wheel has had too many spokes to remember replaced, and rebuilt twice. The most recent build, last month, was done with DT champions...and this evening it again is buckled beyond belief! Can anyone else tell me that uses their bike daily tell me they have experienced the same thing? If so, what other options do I have as I cannot spend any more money on replacing spokes or rebuilding the wheel. any advice would be greatly appreciated, as the bike shop where I live was not able to find another replacement wheel before the recent rebuild, that will fit a 130mm dropout and have a disc. PLEASE HELP!:-) thanks darian Hi All,
I am glad to have found this forum and decent reviews of a great bike.
I got my original poprad disc in 2005 (orange) and due to the frame cracking had to get a replacement being the Trek X02. (reason for the X02 is that trek in the UK had no Poprads left….they stopped making them)
I hated most about the Trek X02, I guess it really all about the brakes…and communting everyday in london where the weather is crap means the discs are the best thing since sliced bread with decent mud guards.
Earlier this year I was able to source a new poprad disc (red 08 model) from the USA, so I am happy again :-)
So here is my gripe, from day 1 and poprad 1, the rear Bontrager disc selects cant stay true! On my first poprad 2 rear wheels failed….nipple ripped through the rim….crazy but true and the wheel needed trueing roughly every month. It would not go slightly buckled…..but rediculously buckled or a broken spoke.
With the new poprad and new wheelset (also bontrager select disc) the wheel is buckling again and breaking spokes. The rear wheel has had too many spokes to remember replaced, and rebuilt twice. The most recent build, last month, was done with DT champions…and this evening it again is buckled beyond belief!

Can anyone else tell me that uses their bike daily tell me they have experienced the same thing?
If so, what other options do I have as I cannot spend any more money on replacing spokes or rebuilding the wheel.
any advice would be greatly appreciated, as the bike shop where I live was not able to find another replacement wheel before the recent rebuild, that will fit a 130mm dropout and have a disc.
PLEASE HELP!:-)
thanks
darian

]]> By: KDub http://www.commutebybike.com/2007/05/31/first-impression-lemond-poprad-disc/comment-page-1/#comment-114272 KDub Thu, 30 Jul 2009 05:42:08 +0000 http://commutebybike.com/2007/05/31/first-impression-lemond-poprad-disc/#comment-114272 Carbon fork detail and disk brake performance stats. Carbon fork detail - "Steel is Real" said "the fork is not carbon". It is, sort of. In the old days carbon was wrapped around aluminum tubes (forks, stems, seat posts, etc.), but structurally, the aluminum bore the load and the carbon was there mostly for looks. They felt like aluminum, were heavy and prone to delam. The Poprad Disk (Bontrager Satellite) fork does have an aluminum tube core, but its a thin light tube whose purpose is to serve as a layup mandrel to lower the construction cost of the fork. The load is born almost entirely by the carbon and the fork has the ride (modulus) of carbon. Disk performance - The problem with the disk is that they are too powerful. At least you have power in the wet, but wet or dry the brakes can catch you off guard. Riding a road disk requires the same braking technique adjustment that mountain bikers made when disk became the norm. I tried a high performance cable housing and it made the worse, so I put a basic spongy cable housing and cable on and it modulated the brake force and mostly tamed the brakes. I also tried a few different rotors and found the Shimano XT disk to be less powerful which further helped to (de)tune the brakes. I really like the performance now wet or dry. Some of my buddies questioned (did I say scoffed at) the disk on road use. So I challenged them to multiple high speed full emergency braking trials and the disk stopped about 10% faster than a well tuned standard road brake. When the road brake got hot is lost power and when the disk got hot it gained power. A hot disk stops about 20% faster than a overheated road caliper. A disk stops about 25% faster on wet roads. That shut 'em up... until I did a nose wheelie and plopped on the ground. KDub's favorite bike - Super Commuter Lemond Poprad Disk, Ultegra triple w/ XT hubs, Sram 11-28 10sp cass, Panaracer 28c summer / 32c winter tires, Tubus Fly rack, Freddy road fenders, NiteRider Flight HID light, Garmin 705 map. Carbon fork detail and disk brake performance stats.
Carbon fork detail – “Steel is Real” said “the fork is not carbon”. It is, sort of. In the old days carbon was wrapped around aluminum tubes (forks, stems, seat posts, etc.), but structurally, the aluminum bore the load and the carbon was there mostly for looks. They felt like aluminum, were heavy and prone to delam.
The Poprad Disk (Bontrager Satellite) fork does have an aluminum tube core, but its a thin light tube whose purpose is to serve as a layup mandrel to lower the construction cost of the fork. The load is born almost entirely by the carbon and the fork has the ride (modulus) of carbon.

Disk performance – The problem with the disk is that they are too powerful. At least you have power in the wet, but wet or dry the brakes can catch you off guard. Riding a road disk requires the same braking technique adjustment that mountain bikers made when disk became the norm. I tried a high performance cable housing and it made the worse, so I put a basic spongy cable housing and cable on and it modulated the brake force and mostly tamed the brakes. I also tried a few different rotors and found the Shimano XT disk to be less powerful which further helped to (de)tune the brakes. I really like the performance now wet or dry. Some of my buddies questioned (did I say scoffed at) the disk on road use. So I challenged them to multiple high speed full emergency braking trials and the disk stopped about 10% faster than a well tuned standard road brake. When the road brake got hot is lost power and when the disk got hot it gained power. A hot disk stops about 20% faster than a overheated road caliper. A disk stops about 25% faster on wet roads. That shut ‘em up… until I did a nose wheelie and plopped on the ground.
KDub’s favorite bike – Super Commuter Lemond Poprad Disk, Ultegra triple w/ XT hubs, Sram 11-28 10sp cass, Panaracer 28c summer / 32c winter tires, Tubus Fly rack, Freddy road fenders, NiteRider Flight HID light, Garmin 705 map.

]]> By: Scott http://www.commutebybike.com/2007/05/31/first-impression-lemond-poprad-disc/comment-page-1/#comment-112535 Scott Fri, 10 Jul 2009 16:13:09 +0000 http://commutebybike.com/2007/05/31/first-impression-lemond-poprad-disc/#comment-112535 I also have a Poprad, i got it used for $650 in mint condition (that same day i hit a unleashed dog). I love this bike in every way but one and it is this; if I turn to sharp left while my right foot is at the 3:00( or viceversa) position my foot hits the tire! Usualy only when I'm starting off but its odd. I also have a Poprad, i got it used for $650 in mint condition (that same day i hit a unleashed dog). I love this bike in every way but one and it is this; if I turn to sharp left while my right foot is at the 3:00( or viceversa) position my foot hits the tire! Usualy only when I’m starting off but its odd.

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