Comments on: Georgia Cyclist Will Carry the Olympic Torch

By: bikesgonewild

bikesgonewild — Sat, 12 Apr 2008 19:05:52 +0000

…sorry, warren t…i know this was your thread but i wanna beat the dead horse/ jaded dragon for another minute…

…the olympics are not like a fun “spanky & our gang” movie where a group of idealistic athletes from one country decide “hey, let’s invite other cool athletes from around the world & we’ll have a party & compete & stuff”…be nice if that’s what it was all about…

…hopefully there will always be a certain amount of pure honest competition by enlightened athletes but while “olympic ideals” are paraded around w/ great pomp, circumstance & flag waving. the truth has long been a matter of governments showcasing politics & ideologies through the use of the athletes…olympic brand marketing is a huge business w/ companies speculating years in advance & committing enormous sums of money so that their logos will be recognized during those “special” moments…the athletes themselves at this point in time are almost an afterthought to the hoopla except that so many of them have bought into the fervor w/ their willingness to cheat whether it’s for nationalistic pride or their own future monetary gains…

…so, unfortunately, the protestations against a regime like the peoples republic of china by interrupting torch relays & the statement made by dignitaries not attending opening ceremonies are as legitimate as the games themselves…btw, don’t expect george w bush to take a stand in any such a manner…that would not only be hypocritical but there just too damn much money tied up between this administration & the awakened rising dragon…

By: Warren T

Warren T — Sat, 12 Apr 2008 14:50:54 +0000

“We return you now to our regularly scheduled bicycle programming.”

By: Fritz

Fritz — Fri, 11 Apr 2008 18:09:02 +0000

Redcliffs, there was a lot of discussion about canceling the US visit in San Francisco, but in the end I guess they decided that the Olympics are more about the athletes and the ideals, not about China.

By: redcliffs

redcliffs — Fri, 11 Apr 2008 18:01:40 +0000

Just to respond to one point… The problem is that the Olympics are not just political, nor are they just athletic. I think the efficacy of Olympic boycotts is dubious from a political standpoint, and it certainly doesn’t represent the interests of the athletes — I’m confident that if the USOC reminded athletes that they were welcome to stage a personal boycott and step down from the US team that not one participant would take the USOC up on it. Having the president stay away from the opening ceremonies has some marginal symbolic significance, I suppose, but why don’t they stay away from the whole thing, then? And why does the president even go? Another question for another day, that. If the USOC or US government wanted to make an immediate statement, I’m sorry that they didn’t cancel the torch visit to SFO — I was actually quite surprised that Gavin Newsome didn’t make a stink (though maybe he did and I never heard about it).

By: bikesgonewild

bikesgonewild — Fri, 11 Apr 2008 10:43:50 +0000

…very erudite dissertation, mike c,,,

…so your point would be that if one or two parties are wrong, then we should find it acceptable for all parties to be wrong ???…there are many people in this world who morally can’t accept human rights violations by any government whether it’s their own or not…
…is there a schematic for just how much disinformation can be utilized by particular forms of government ???…the concept (it’s just a form of advertising, right ?) is used by every government in the world to varying degrees of success & effect related to their motives…it’s obvious how it’s used here at home to foment an edge of fear & it’s been proven that the major communistic states have used it to keep great majorities of citizens in deplorable ignorance & fear…
…it’s disingenuous of any intelligent human being, knowing full well how quickly & effectively protestations are quelled in a totalitarian environment, to not understand that response from outside sources helps raise awareness…

…there are plenty of overtly repressive regimes in this world, but none so populated & economically influential as a rising china… the opportunity to utilize more technologically enlightened growth models seems of little consequence to the chinese government…tibet provides both an as yet untapped source of raw materials for that unregulated growth & ultimately a strategic military position…but oppression is their key to control all the factors…

…so while trying to affect change locally is a sensible idea & a damn good place to start, the locals in tibet & china (& burma & darfur) are largely unheard or recognized by their controllers…so maybe this is a case where indirect input will help…

By: Mike Myers

Mike Myers — Thu, 10 Apr 2008 22:45:06 +0000

Edit—-I mean, I actively TRY not to buy Chinese products. It’s difficult.

By: Mike Myers

Mike Myers — Thu, 10 Apr 2008 22:44:09 +0000

I don’t buy Chinese products or shop at Wal-Mart—-but athletes going to this dog and pony show, while the Chinese are slaughtering monks in the street, is wrong.

The Olympics are a political event. The only way to show them their behavior is inappropriate is to hit them in the pocketbook. Having major Olympic teams not show up to the games would do that. Imagine if China spent billions to revamp Beijing, only to have the US not show up. Or Britain, France, Germany, etc.

But no, we’ll send out team, making our claims of “supporting democracy” even more hollow. God forbid some athletes not get a chance to compete for a gold medal. That’s MUCH more important than the lives of Tibetans or Chinese. Sheesh.

By: JoelGuelph

JoelGuelph — Thu, 10 Apr 2008 18:35:30 +0000

Mike,
I agree with you completely, especially the Made in China part. I don’t see people lining up to protest at their local Wal-Mart. If you want to have an effect on China, stop buying Chinese products, don’t ruin the dreams of thousands of athletes, most of whom have spent their whole lives training for this opportunity.

By: Mike C

Mike C — Thu, 10 Apr 2008 17:57:41 +0000

^^^didn’t mean to post that anonymously…

By: Anonymous

Anonymous — Thu, 10 Apr 2008 17:52:14 +0000

I have a hard time wrapping my head around the whole Tibet issue regarding China. Or Taiwan for that matter. By international recognition, these are provinces of China, part of ROC. Taiwan since the 1600s except for brief occupation by Japan, Tibet since the 1950s. In Tibet, forces are causing civil unrest there and the gov’t has gone in to quell such disturbances. I can certainly see why those protesting gov’t issues over there have a lot to shout about, but not so much anyone outside their country.

As late as 1971, the USA and UK were forcibly relocating populations away from their lands in order to seize strategic real estate. The US has more people and a greater percentage of population in prison than communist China. How can any US citizen point a finger at the Chinese and complain about human rights abuses when there’s as much or more to protest right here? How can we tell them to clean up their act when our own backyard is a mess? Iraq, Guantanamo, the list is endless…

Also, the last time any US state made an attempt at independence, there was a civil war–what do you think would happen if there was ever a mass movement for one state’s independence here? Lots of calm discussion, or swarming jack-booted-thugs? How is Tibet any different?

And someone, anyone tell me how, HOW did “Free Tibet” go from a CIA clandenstine operation in the 60s to a countercultural fad in the 80s?

I’d love to think that for all the people lined up to protest, not one of them own anything that says “Made in China” on it, but I’m guessing that those people would be in the minority even in that crowd.

Just not sure what the goal is here–protest something you don’t have any direct say in? Wouldn’t it be better to try effecting change locally, first?