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	<title>Comments on: Let&#8217;s take bicycling back from the sports enthusiasts</title>
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	<link>http://www.commutebybike.com/2008/07/24/let%e2%80%99s-take-bicycling-back-from-the-sports-enthusiasts/</link>
	<description>Tips, Hints, Reviews and Safety for Bike Commuters</description>
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		<title>By: Timmy V.</title>
		<link>http://www.commutebybike.com/2008/07/24/let%e2%80%99s-take-bicycling-back-from-the-sports-enthusiasts/comment-page-1/#comment-86486</link>
		<dc:creator>Timmy V.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Jul 2008 17:25:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://commutebybike.com/?p=2319#comment-86486</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m in agreement with the rest of the people here who don&#039;t see the need for the distinction.  I understand that there is a &#039;culture&#039; that seems to discourage bicycling as a form of transportation rather than a sport, however, I don&#039;t think that can be combated by fitting a certain image or riding certain kinds of bikes or not.  

I ride a 25 year old road bike... but it&#039;s a *road bike.  You know why?  Because I find it to be comfortable and fast.  I wear Pearl Izumi shorts.  Why?  Because they keep my dryer and help my fanny not hurt.  I&#039;m thinking about getting a Jersey for the same reasons.  If I commute to work or elsewhere and &#039;look&#039; like a Sports Cyclist, that doesn&#039;t change the fact that my circle knows that I commute.  If not dressing that way (as I did for the first few months of commuting) makes it more difficult to commute by bike, then why should I feel bad for not &#039;taking cycling back&#039; in my appearance and attitude?  The whole point is person to person contact that makes biking normal, not some sort of statement to the world as they watch you triumphantly commuting to bike even though they&#039;ve never met you.

So, while I want the industry to be more aware of commuting and to be producing bikes that are designed for people who want to get from A to B, I really think this attitude is destructive.  Let&#039;s just celebrate biking, both as a vehicle and as a sport.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m in agreement with the rest of the people here who don&#8217;t see the need for the distinction.  I understand that there is a &#8216;culture&#8217; that seems to discourage bicycling as a form of transportation rather than a sport, however, I don&#8217;t think that can be combated by fitting a certain image or riding certain kinds of bikes or not.  </p>
<p>I ride a 25 year old road bike&#8230; but it&#8217;s a *road bike.  You know why?  Because I find it to be comfortable and fast.  I wear Pearl Izumi shorts.  Why?  Because they keep my dryer and help my fanny not hurt.  I&#8217;m thinking about getting a Jersey for the same reasons.  If I commute to work or elsewhere and &#8216;look&#8217; like a Sports Cyclist, that doesn&#8217;t change the fact that my circle knows that I commute.  If not dressing that way (as I did for the first few months of commuting) makes it more difficult to commute by bike, then why should I feel bad for not &#8216;taking cycling back&#8217; in my appearance and attitude?  The whole point is person to person contact that makes biking normal, not some sort of statement to the world as they watch you triumphantly commuting to bike even though they&#8217;ve never met you.</p>
<p>So, while I want the industry to be more aware of commuting and to be producing bikes that are designed for people who want to get from A to B, I really think this attitude is destructive.  Let&#8217;s just celebrate biking, both as a vehicle and as a sport.</p>
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		<title>By: MikeOnBike</title>
		<link>http://www.commutebybike.com/2008/07/24/let%e2%80%99s-take-bicycling-back-from-the-sports-enthusiasts/comment-page-1/#comment-86319</link>
		<dc:creator>MikeOnBike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jul 2008 22:40:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://commutebybike.com/?p=2319#comment-86319</guid>
		<description>@Paul: I&#039;m not saying we shouldn&#039;t have lanes, paths, bike boulevards, etc. if they&#039;re carefully designed.

I&#039;m saying that when we promote them as a place to &quot;feel safe&quot;, we&#039;re saying that the default for cycling is to &quot;feel in danger&quot;.

We could promote infrastructure on convenience (look at this handy shortcut) or pleasantness (what a nice tree-lined residential street) or awareness (this is a popular route for cycling).  Instead, we create a perception of danger that needs to be solved.

Meanwhile, lots of people who we&#039;ve convinced to be scared of cycling on ordinary roads have no fear about motoring on those same roads.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Paul: I&#8217;m not saying we shouldn&#8217;t have lanes, paths, bike boulevards, etc. if they&#8217;re carefully designed.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m saying that when we promote them as a place to &#8220;feel safe&#8221;, we&#8217;re saying that the default for cycling is to &#8220;feel in danger&#8221;.</p>
<p>We could promote infrastructure on convenience (look at this handy shortcut) or pleasantness (what a nice tree-lined residential street) or awareness (this is a popular route for cycling).  Instead, we create a perception of danger that needs to be solved.</p>
<p>Meanwhile, lots of people who we&#8217;ve convinced to be scared of cycling on ordinary roads have no fear about motoring on those same roads.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul</title>
		<link>http://www.commutebybike.com/2008/07/24/let%e2%80%99s-take-bicycling-back-from-the-sports-enthusiasts/comment-page-1/#comment-86311</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jul 2008 21:43:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://commutebybike.com/?p=2319#comment-86311</guid>
		<description>@MikeOnBike: There is no way I can convince my grandmother to ride her bike thru the city if it involves riding in the streets. 
Without proper bike lanes and bike paths we will maybe reach 15% of the commuters. If people feel safe riding a bike they will and bike path is the best way to do that,much better than helmets.
I&#039;m not saying that we need to build x miles of bike paths before people can start pedaling, but the process must start. It will take many years.
And Mike, believe me I&#039;m not fear mongering. Don&#039;t get me started on the helmet discussion. I actually believe that because more and more people are wearing helmets non bike commuters think that biking is dangerous.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@MikeOnBike: There is no way I can convince my grandmother to ride her bike thru the city if it involves riding in the streets.<br />
Without proper bike lanes and bike paths we will maybe reach 15% of the commuters. If people feel safe riding a bike they will and bike path is the best way to do that,much better than helmets.<br />
I&#8217;m not saying that we need to build x miles of bike paths before people can start pedaling, but the process must start. It will take many years.<br />
And Mike, believe me I&#8217;m not fear mongering. Don&#8217;t get me started on the helmet discussion. I actually believe that because more and more people are wearing helmets non bike commuters think that biking is dangerous.</p>
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		<title>By: Bill Fox</title>
		<link>http://www.commutebybike.com/2008/07/24/let%e2%80%99s-take-bicycling-back-from-the-sports-enthusiasts/comment-page-1/#comment-86305</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill Fox</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jul 2008 20:40:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://commutebybike.com/?p=2319#comment-86305</guid>
		<description>Unless you have the power to &quot;take&quot; something back all it&#039;s all just talk.  Bicycling is a healthy pursuit no matter how you pursue it.  All of us who ride are setting examples of doing something good for yourself.  Mostly we do it for ourselves and not to be an example, but people do notice.  

I commute because it is the best time for me to get a daily ride in and it allows us to live with just one vehicle.  I, and my family, get numerous benefits from it.  The topic of bicycling frequently comes up around me and some people think about getting involved in whatever way they want to.  I don&#039;t think it takes a crusade to make this happen.  I think it happens one person at a time just sharing what they love to do.

What I would like to see is government more committed to making more roads rideable.  That is something we can lobby for with our representatives.  Too many roads in my city are too dangerous to ride on.  That, to me, is a better choice for us to focus on for any change.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Unless you have the power to &#8220;take&#8221; something back all it&#8217;s all just talk.  Bicycling is a healthy pursuit no matter how you pursue it.  All of us who ride are setting examples of doing something good for yourself.  Mostly we do it for ourselves and not to be an example, but people do notice.  </p>
<p>I commute because it is the best time for me to get a daily ride in and it allows us to live with just one vehicle.  I, and my family, get numerous benefits from it.  The topic of bicycling frequently comes up around me and some people think about getting involved in whatever way they want to.  I don&#8217;t think it takes a crusade to make this happen.  I think it happens one person at a time just sharing what they love to do.</p>
<p>What I would like to see is government more committed to making more roads rideable.  That is something we can lobby for with our representatives.  Too many roads in my city are too dangerous to ride on.  That, to me, is a better choice for us to focus on for any change.</p>
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		<title>By: Mauricio Babilonia</title>
		<link>http://www.commutebybike.com/2008/07/24/let%e2%80%99s-take-bicycling-back-from-the-sports-enthusiasts/comment-page-1/#comment-86294</link>
		<dc:creator>Mauricio Babilonia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jul 2008 19:35:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://commutebybike.com/?p=2319#comment-86294</guid>
		<description>Tim G., It seems like we&#039;re talking past each other a little. I completely agree that the prevailing bicycle-as-toy attitude needs to change if bicycles are to become an accepted part of the American transportation system. I agree that it&#039;s an attitude that needs to change in government, with the general public, and yes, even with sport cyclists and the shops that cater to them. In that sense, taking ownership of what bike riding should encompass is entirely legit.

The problem I have with the phrase &lt;i&gt;Let&#039;s take bicycling back from the sports enthusiasts!&lt;/i&gt; is that it implies one bike-riding group (the &lt;i&gt;us&lt;/i&gt; in &lt;i&gt;let&#039;s&lt;/i&gt;) taking something away from another bike-riding group (sports enthusiasts.) So you stand by what you&#039;ve written, but do you understand that it implies a divisiveness that you may not intend?

When advocates try to influence public policy, it is always better to find common ground and build coalitions than it is for each group to have its own narrow adgenda. Why not come up with something that says &lt;i&gt;the more of us there are, the safer we&#039;ll be&lt;/i&gt; or &lt;i&gt;the bicycle-not just for liesure anymore&lt;/i&gt; or &lt;i&gt;more bicycles=more life&lt;/i&gt;? Trek&#039;s &lt;i&gt;1 World, 2 Wheels&lt;/i&gt; isn&#039;t a bad start, really...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tim G., It seems like we&#8217;re talking past each other a little. I completely agree that the prevailing bicycle-as-toy attitude needs to change if bicycles are to become an accepted part of the American transportation system. I agree that it&#8217;s an attitude that needs to change in government, with the general public, and yes, even with sport cyclists and the shops that cater to them. In that sense, taking ownership of what bike riding should encompass is entirely legit.</p>
<p>The problem I have with the phrase <i>Let&#8217;s take bicycling back from the sports enthusiasts!</i> is that it implies one bike-riding group (the <i>us</i> in <i>let&#8217;s</i>) taking something away from another bike-riding group (sports enthusiasts.) So you stand by what you&#8217;ve written, but do you understand that it implies a divisiveness that you may not intend?</p>
<p>When advocates try to influence public policy, it is always better to find common ground and build coalitions than it is for each group to have its own narrow adgenda. Why not come up with something that says <i>the more of us there are, the safer we&#8217;ll be</i> or <i>the bicycle-not just for liesure anymore</i> or <i>more bicycles=more life</i>? Trek&#8217;s <i>1 World, 2 Wheels</i> isn&#8217;t a bad start, really&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: MikeOnBike</title>
		<link>http://www.commutebybike.com/2008/07/24/let%e2%80%99s-take-bicycling-back-from-the-sports-enthusiasts/comment-page-1/#comment-86269</link>
		<dc:creator>MikeOnBike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jul 2008 16:08:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://commutebybike.com/?p=2319#comment-86269</guid>
		<description>tim Says: &quot;for slightly longer trips, it would be great if people - normal people, not &quot;cyclists&quot; - would just ride there on a bike. Not because they particularly enjoy it, but because driving a couple of miles in a 2-ton car is absurd.&quot;

The places that have lots of short cycling trips tend to be places where driving a car is more absurd than usual:  Compact college towns where parking is scarce and students can&#039;t afford a car anyway.  Countries where getting a driver&#039;s license is very difficult or the fees to own a car are very high.

In other words, it&#039;s the most practical choice, compared to the alternatives.  Because the alternative of driving a car is less practical than usual.

Cycling is already about as practical as it&#039;s going to get.  The balance shifts as motoring becomes less practical.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>tim Says: &#8220;for slightly longer trips, it would be great if people &#8211; normal people, not &#8220;cyclists&#8221; &#8211; would just ride there on a bike. Not because they particularly enjoy it, but because driving a couple of miles in a 2-ton car is absurd.&#8221;</p>
<p>The places that have lots of short cycling trips tend to be places where driving a car is more absurd than usual:  Compact college towns where parking is scarce and students can&#8217;t afford a car anyway.  Countries where getting a driver&#8217;s license is very difficult or the fees to own a car are very high.</p>
<p>In other words, it&#8217;s the most practical choice, compared to the alternatives.  Because the alternative of driving a car is less practical than usual.</p>
<p>Cycling is already about as practical as it&#8217;s going to get.  The balance shifts as motoring becomes less practical.</p>
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		<title>By: MikeOnBike</title>
		<link>http://www.commutebybike.com/2008/07/24/let%e2%80%99s-take-bicycling-back-from-the-sports-enthusiasts/comment-page-1/#comment-86267</link>
		<dc:creator>MikeOnBike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jul 2008 15:53:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://commutebybike.com/?p=2319#comment-86267</guid>
		<description>Paul Says: &quot;Bike lanes are actually very important if you want people to feel safe on a bike.&quot;

That&#039;s exactly the sort of fear-mongering I mean.  If there&#039;s no bike lane, people are supposed to feel unsafe, and therefore shouldn&#039;t ride.

And we&#039;re not even talking about actual safety or danger, just feelings.  We, the cycling advocates, have created the perception that cycling is dangerous, and there&#039;s nothing people can do about the danger, short of waiting for infrastructure to be built.

Instead of informing potential cyclists of valid, avoidable risks like doorings and right hooks, we fill their heads with trumped-up dangers that scare them off cycling entirely  The ones that do get past the fear end up getting doored and hooked because they &quot;felt&quot; safe.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Paul Says: &#8220;Bike lanes are actually very important if you want people to feel safe on a bike.&#8221;</p>
<p>That&#8217;s exactly the sort of fear-mongering I mean.  If there&#8217;s no bike lane, people are supposed to feel unsafe, and therefore shouldn&#8217;t ride.</p>
<p>And we&#8217;re not even talking about actual safety or danger, just feelings.  We, the cycling advocates, have created the perception that cycling is dangerous, and there&#8217;s nothing people can do about the danger, short of waiting for infrastructure to be built.</p>
<p>Instead of informing potential cyclists of valid, avoidable risks like doorings and right hooks, we fill their heads with trumped-up dangers that scare them off cycling entirely  The ones that do get past the fear end up getting doored and hooked because they &#8220;felt&#8221; safe.</p>
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		<title>By: Tim Grahl</title>
		<link>http://www.commutebybike.com/2008/07/24/let%e2%80%99s-take-bicycling-back-from-the-sports-enthusiasts/comment-page-1/#comment-86265</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim Grahl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jul 2008 15:26:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://commutebybike.com/?p=2319#comment-86265</guid>
		<description>Thanks for all the comments everyone.  For those that don&#039;t like the word &quot;take&quot; as I use it, I respect your opinion, but I believe in many cases that&#039;s the mentality that&#039;s needed.

In speaking with the guys from places like Amsterdam and Copenhagen, a huge part of how they got to their current state of bike utopia is politicians taking a stand and taking the roads back from the cars.  There&#039;s been been amazing legislation passed to make the roads bikeable (including shutting down a main thoroughfare to anything but bikes) and that&#039;s been a huge part of getting more people on bikes.  

Yes, the word &quot;take&quot; applies.  

Currently the bike&#039;s perception has been placed solely on a sport/recreation mindset.  And that needs to be taken back.  You can say changed, shifted, rotated, lifted... you say tomato, I say tomato (that doesn&#039;t really translate to print).

I think tim said it best above in comment #31... he articulated better than I could what I was trying to say.  Bikes should be normal. And I want to take the steps needed to get there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for all the comments everyone.  For those that don&#8217;t like the word &#8220;take&#8221; as I use it, I respect your opinion, but I believe in many cases that&#8217;s the mentality that&#8217;s needed.</p>
<p>In speaking with the guys from places like Amsterdam and Copenhagen, a huge part of how they got to their current state of bike utopia is politicians taking a stand and taking the roads back from the cars.  There&#8217;s been been amazing legislation passed to make the roads bikeable (including shutting down a main thoroughfare to anything but bikes) and that&#8217;s been a huge part of getting more people on bikes.  </p>
<p>Yes, the word &#8220;take&#8221; applies.  </p>
<p>Currently the bike&#8217;s perception has been placed solely on a sport/recreation mindset.  And that needs to be taken back.  You can say changed, shifted, rotated, lifted&#8230; you say tomato, I say tomato (that doesn&#8217;t really translate to print).</p>
<p>I think tim said it best above in comment #31&#8230; he articulated better than I could what I was trying to say.  Bikes should be normal. And I want to take the steps needed to get there.</p>
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		<title>By: Shek</title>
		<link>http://www.commutebybike.com/2008/07/24/let%e2%80%99s-take-bicycling-back-from-the-sports-enthusiasts/comment-page-1/#comment-86255</link>
		<dc:creator>Shek</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jul 2008 13:26:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://commutebybike.com/?p=2319#comment-86255</guid>
		<description>The most resistance I get from motorists is when they think that I should not be on the road. It is the image of cycling in people&#039;s minds. 
I agree with saying that we should take cycling back from the sports enthusiasts. I think it is really aimed at the general public than the enthusiasts. 
I drive a car to, that does not mean that I am takeing driving away from F1 racing, dragsters, WRCs and drifters. 

It is the general motorsits that need to realize that cycling is a means of transportation too, a very effective one at that. Fortunately, the gas prices help advocating the sentiment these days.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The most resistance I get from motorists is when they think that I should not be on the road. It is the image of cycling in people&#8217;s minds.<br />
I agree with saying that we should take cycling back from the sports enthusiasts. I think it is really aimed at the general public than the enthusiasts.<br />
I drive a car to, that does not mean that I am takeing driving away from F1 racing, dragsters, WRCs and drifters. </p>
<p>It is the general motorsits that need to realize that cycling is a means of transportation too, a very effective one at that. Fortunately, the gas prices help advocating the sentiment these days.</p>
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		<title>By: Ghost Rider</title>
		<link>http://www.commutebybike.com/2008/07/24/let%e2%80%99s-take-bicycling-back-from-the-sports-enthusiasts/comment-page-1/#comment-86248</link>
		<dc:creator>Ghost Rider</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jul 2008 10:54:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://commutebybike.com/?p=2319#comment-86248</guid>
		<description>Yeah, what Sconnyboy said...

Mr. Grahl -- great sentiment, but not the best choice of words in which to frame it.  

I agree with the commenters who state that the best way to make transportational cycling &quot;visible&quot; is to be out there in regular clothes, riding at less-than-breakneck speeds, obeying the rules of the road and appearing like we&#039;re having the times of our lives.  

The U.S. has a long way to go before we become a cycling Utopia like Amsterdam (if we EVER get there), but there&#039;s a culture shift a-happenin&#039;.  Check out J. Harry Wray&#039;s &lt;em&gt;Pedal Power:  The Quiet Rise of the Bicycle in American Public Life&lt;/em&gt; for the skinny on that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, what Sconnyboy said&#8230;</p>
<p>Mr. Grahl &#8212; great sentiment, but not the best choice of words in which to frame it.  </p>
<p>I agree with the commenters who state that the best way to make transportational cycling &#8220;visible&#8221; is to be out there in regular clothes, riding at less-than-breakneck speeds, obeying the rules of the road and appearing like we&#8217;re having the times of our lives.  </p>
<p>The U.S. has a long way to go before we become a cycling Utopia like Amsterdam (if we EVER get there), but there&#8217;s a culture shift a-happenin&#8217;.  Check out J. Harry Wray&#8217;s <em>Pedal Power:  The Quiet Rise of the Bicycle in American Public Life</em> for the skinny on that.</p>
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