Comments on: The Great Debate: Vehicular vs. Segregated Cycling

By: Susan

Susan — Wed, 22 Aug 2012 15:58:40 +0000

I ride on the roads with the traffic and get yelled at regularly by drivers telling me what they think I’m doing wrong (driving like a car). But the bike path here in Ottawa 1) has a speed limit of 20 km / hour so if I want to go faster I should drive on the road, and 2) even that speed is dangerous in the evenings due to the plethora of walkers, kids, wheelchairs, faster cyclists etc. I experienced bike road rage from a cyclist I passed very closely because he didn’t shift over in response to my bell – because he was wearing headphones and didn’t hear me coming. I’ll use the roads and the paths, but I usually feel safer on the roads where I drive my bike like a car. I’m just tired of drivers telling me how to drive my bike; I don’t tell them how to drive their car!

On the other hand if someone offered me a dancing pony I’d take it.

By: Stacey Moses

Stacey Moses — Mon, 02 May 2011 21:09:32 +0000

Hi Oboe,

Not sure if your comment is directed to me personally or if you are speaking in generalities (or even if you are agreeing or disagreeing with me?), but there are both pros and cons to each side of this debate, which are explained above.

I can think of good, different reasons to eat both mac & cheese and sushi as well. What doesn’t make sense is for someone to insist that you should only eat one kind of food- if we only ate mac & cheese, we’d all end up with scurvy, and there are definitely places where I wouldn’t trust the sushi.

And I’m not really in the market for a magical dancing pony.

By: oboe

oboe — Mon, 02 May 2011 17:03:24 +0000

This kind of false dichotomy is so frustrating.

It’s the equivalent of arguing that “poor people should eat sushi instead of Macaroni & Cheese”. If you think the reason we don’t have *comprehensive* segregated cycle infrastructure in US cities (much less suburbs) is because the opposition of “Vehicular Cyclists”, you’re either completely deranged, or high as a kite.

Your strategy appears to be:

1) Ride your bike on the sidewalk (at a walking pace)

2) ???

3) Billion dollar network of segregated bike facilities that connect every Point A with every Point B.

Blaming realistic cyclists for the fact that you haven’t gotten your magical dancing pony yet is just crazy.

By: Sean

Sean — Mon, 01 Nov 2010 15:23:28 +0000

Ryan:

Bang on. Speed limits seem to be the acceptable minimum rather than upper maximum lately. Even when a speeder is pulled over the cops typically reduce the spped infraction to avoid charging motorists with street racing and to save them points and fines.

Gawd help cyclists in Toronto if Rob Ford removes the street cars and eliminates bicycle lanes. It will be worse gridlock than ever.

By: Dolores

Dolores — Thu, 28 Oct 2010 17:22:19 +0000

I think this really is very true — the more bikes on the road, the more likely drivers are to be aware of them and look out for them. Then, cycling feels safer and more people cycle.

I’ve seen this in NYC just in the past few years.

By: Ryan

Ryan — Thu, 28 Oct 2010 17:16:06 +0000

I support separated bike paths on ANY street with a speed limit of 50 km/h (30 mp/h) or greater.

All residential side streets should be a max of 30 km/h, and bike lanes are not needed.

Of course a big issue is how many motorists obey the speed limits now?
It bothers me because in many Ontario cities, going 10-20 km/h over the speed limit has become perfectly acceptable.

By: reb1

reb1 — Wed, 27 Oct 2010 23:16:58 +0000

There are very few bicycle paths and of those there are very few of them that are as safe as just using the road. The man does not care about are safety. We are responsible for it ourselves. Obeying the law and doing things like signaling stopping at stops and lights and not cutting traffic off is not anti cycling. The amount of rear end collisions is rising due to the use of electronics. In some countries this is not near as much of a problem because they put human life first. We live in the USA not Europe. I believe things like slower speed limits,not allowing cars to park on the street and loss of license and jail time for motorists who injure or kill peds or bicyclists and the same for bicyclists who injure or kill peds would do allot more to stop the mayhem.

By: Todd

Todd — Wed, 27 Oct 2010 17:41:11 +0000

My bike is my main form of transportation and I’ve been a vehicular cyclist for years – only because I have to. Frankly I am sick of having to ride in very heavy traffic, being cut off and endangered by drivers, avoiding road debris, etc. There are a lot of cyclists in my town, but the vast majority are young adults willing to take more risks. I advocate in my city for any and all segregated infrastructure we can get that is safe, convenient, and well maintained. I can’t wait until the day I can ride like so many do in Europe and never again have to deal with motorized traffic. We’ve been pursuing a vehicular approach for a long time, and our numbers are not growing by much at all. When we create an environment where parent can haul their kids around and seniors can ride without fear that is the day we’ll really see a spike in our numbers. Thanks so much for taking this issue on. I look forward to further investigation and discussion on this topic.

By: Ted Johnson

Ted Johnson — Wed, 27 Oct 2010 16:59:28 +0000

@John Brooking

“the tendency of infrastructure to diminish the perception of cyclists as equal travelers on the *entire* road system, including outside of the bike infrastructure.”

That’s an important point. I got doored in DC once–broke a finger and handlebars. The man with the car felt completely innocent because I was on a section of Columbia Rd where there was a gap in the bike lane. (I bet you know this section, Stacey.) In his view, I should have bridged that gap by switching to the sidewalk.

@Everybody Else

Commute By Bike is in good hands.

By: Stacey Moses

Stacey Moses — Wed, 27 Oct 2010 16:18:56 +0000

Lots of great points made above- thanks to everyone for the comments. My intention, as John B. pointed out, was to give a fairly unbiased summary of each perspective and see how the discussion developed. I will definitely be exploring some of the finer details from each camp in future posts. I have to add here, however, that I couldn’t agree more with John B. and Jim that education is a key element. Any city that has successfully implemented any type of bike infrastructure has also dedicated resources to education as well as considered other factors that contribute to the transportation culture such as traffic calming measures.

Thanks for reading!